Hey Green Junkie!
How many beauty products do you use in a day?
From skincare to deodorant, all the way down to toothpaste – the average human is using A LOT of products.
As a matter of fact, the average woman will spend an average of 200k in her lifetime on beauty products alone. Isn’t that staggering?
So I brought Lorraine Dallmeier onto the podcast so we could discuss all things sustainable beauty. How brands are improving and what we as consumers can do to consume less and help lessen the beauty industries impact on the environment.
In this episode I will touch on:
- How to define sustainable beauty
- The 4 pillars of sustainable beauty
- How to have less when it comes to beauty products
- What the beauty industry is doing right and where they could improve
If you love this podcast be sure to leave a review and share a screenshot of this episode to your IG stories. Tag @thisisstephaniemoram so I can shout you out and publicly say thanks.
Thanks for listening and being here.
Your green bestie,
Xoxo Stephanie
Hang With Lorraine
https://www.lorrainedallmeier.com
https://www.instagram.com/lorrainedallmeier/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorrainedallmeier/
Check Out Formula Botanica
https://www.facebook.com/FormulaBotanica
https://www.instagram.com/formulabotanica/
https://twitter.com/formulabotanica
https://www.tiktok.com/@formulabotanica
https://www.youtube.com/c/FormulaBotanicaSchool/videos
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/green-beauty-conversations-by-formula-botanica/id1350581005
Previous Episodes Mentioned
#31. What’s Really Hiding in Your Home with Loni Brown
#54. Greenify Your Self-Care and Bathroom Routine
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Produced by: Alecia Harris
Music By: Liz Fohle
LISTEN BELOW
TRANSCRIPT FOR EPISODE 56
Stephanie Moram 0:00
Hi Green Junkie it's Stephanie Moram your host and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Lorraine Dallmeier the founder of Formula Botanica Lorraine is a biologist, chartered environmentalist, and the award winning seven figure CEO, she runs Formula Botanica, the accredited online organic cosmetic formulation and business school, where she and her team have trained 17,000+ organic formulators in over 180 countries around the world to start or grow their own indie beauty business. You can head over to Instagram and TikTok and you can follow me @thisisStephanieMoram. You can also download my free five part audio series Live A Little More Green, you will find all the information in the show notes below. And don't forget to subscribe to the Green Junkie Podcast on whatever platform you get your podcasts. That way you'll never miss another green living episode.
Stephanie Moram 1:08
Hi, Lorraine, thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to chat with me for a little bit today.
Lorraine Dallmeier 1:17
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Stephanie. It's a pleasure to be here. And I'm really looking forward to our chat.
Stephanie Moram 1:22
So we're gonna dive right in. And since you're in, you know, the beauty industry, and you're teaching people, you know how to formulate organic cosmetics, I would love how do you define green and sustainable beauty? What does that look like for you?
Lorraine Dallmeier 1:39
That's a really interesting question. I have to admit, I've never been asked that question before. I post the green beauty conversations podcast. So obviously, I'm all about green beauty. And for me that is very much about embracing naturals, but from an environmentally sustainable perspective. So we're talking about, you know, making ingredient or using ingredients that haven't been grown in polluted areas, or growing baby to organic standards. That's certainly what we do at Formula Botanica as well, but also embracing that environmental sustainability. So I guess on the flip side, if you've got green beauty on one side, which is like the environmental sustainability sort of thing, then you've got sustainable beauty. And that goes a bit wider, obviously. And I've defined sustainable cosmetics as those cosmetics that can be produced to meet sustainable consumer demands. And I know we're going to come on to this without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. And that is a really big and heavy definition. But it encompasses a lot. Basically, we need to stop using all of our resources so that in the future people can still sustainably use the cosmetics as they want to as well.
Stephanie Moram 2:47
And when you look at like green and sustainable beauty, so you have a company that you know, using cleaner ingredients, or using organic ingredients, do you think you know, the packaging plays a part in, you know, being a green sustainable brand when it comes to beauty?
Lorraine Dallmeier 3:02
Absolutely, it's a whole, it's a whole product picture, basically, which is why we always talk about the whole formulation in the whole packaging, it's very easy to get hung up on the packaging component, because it's such a tangible thing that all of us can make contact with. And, you know, the beauty industry produces hundreds of billions of units of plastic packaging a year per year, which is quite shocking. But then on the other hand, you know, it also contains the formulation which tends to get washed away, or sort of sloughed off the body basically. So again, that can pollute our waterways as well. So there's a two pronged approach really, you've got the ingredients, and then you've got the packaging that comes with it. And then of course, you've also got the the operations of the companies behind it that actually make the products.
Stephanie Moram 3:45
Right, there's just so much involved when it comes to being like that green brand, because you will have brands out there that focus on packaging, right? They're focusing on the packaging, making sure it's compostable, or it's refillable or whatever. But then their ingredients aren't that awesome. And I'll look at them. I'll be like, I love your packaging, and I want to support that but I can't support the ingredients that you're putting in the product. And then you have companies that might have really clean products, but they're not quite at the level of packaging that I would love where it's like refillable or compostable and, like less plastic.
Lorraine Dallmeier 4:19
Yeah, it's a tough one. And to be fair, I mean, we've worked with 1000s of beauty brands over the world. And they tend to be at the smaller scale. Right. So beauty brands and I will say that the vast majority of the ones I've worked with very much care about both of those components. It's once you start to move into the larger brands that you see them come up with all sorts of greenwashing where they go, we've got circular packaging, and then you realize that they've just made the toothpaste tube that they've been using for 50 years recyclable even though it will never be recycled anywhere. So that that's where things become slightly more problematic. But I will say the indie brands in general, they're really really doing their best and I honestly think they'll lead the way in this.
Stephanie Moram 4:59
Yeah. I agree, I think it's the small businesses that are probably going to make a bigger change in the cosmetic industry. And so I think my next question is, you've spoken about four pillars of sustainable beauty. I saw it on Instagram, you were talking a little bit about it, you were teasing it. And you said, it might be a little bit controversial, the information that you're giving, and I'm all about controversy, and like hearing other opinions from people. So I would love you to talk about that. What are those four pillars of sustainability, of sustainable beauty? You talked about it on your podcast as well. So we could link that below for everyone if they want to listen to the original share, like what are those four, four pillars that might be a little bit controversial.
Lorraine Dallmeier 5:45
I'm more than happy to share. So I was invited to come and give a talk to the New York Society of cosmetic chemists last year, earlier this year, I don't know all the years of learning and so on. And they wanted me to talk about sustainable beauty. And I was sat there thinking, you know, I could talk about everything else that has already been talked about. But actually all of us in the beauty industry, are missing the main point, which is the fact that we just use and consume and produce far too much stuff. So I thought, let me be a little bit controversial about this, because everyone always goes straight for the ingredients, and the operations and the packaging, which is all important. But ultimately, it comes down to the philosophy behind it. And a lot of it comes down to what the beauty industry has been telling us for such a long time. Because they have very successfully embraced marketing through insecurity for over a century, right? You're constantly being told you're not young enough, you're not pretty enough, you're not white enough, you're not attractive enough. And because of that, you then start to seek the salvation that you're promised with the products that supposedly make you worth it. And because of that the beauty industry has created these massive societal insecurities. It's it's everywhere, absolutely everywhere we look, and we haven't really begun to understand it. But by doing that, they forced mass consumption out of us.
Lorraine Dallmeier 7:02
So the average woman has 16 facial care products on her bathroom shelf, that's a lot. You're not using that right? The average woman and this one really shocked me when I uncovered this one. The average woman's estimated to spend between 200k – 300 in a lifetime on cosmetics. I mean, that's the cost of our house. Right? Same. So because of all of that, very controversially, my first pillar of sustainable beauty is less, it means less consumption, less production, less products on your bathroom shelf, and ultimately a hell of a lot less of that marketing through insecurity.
Lorraine Dallmeier 7:45
And when you look at the beauty industry and the discussions they're having around sustainability, literally no one is talking about this. And that really bothers me because you've got all the big brands forming these coalition's and conglomerates, and we have all these sustainability panels and look at all the amazing work we're doing. Literally, no one is going hey, do you think maybe we need to stop putting billions of beauty products out into the world that most people don't use. And when clubhouse was a big thing last year, I went on clubhouse, and I ended up in a room, which is quite empty, but I was there with the head of sustainable development for one of the world's largest cosmetics brands. And I was like, Ha, I'm going up on the stage. And I talked to her and I said, you know, what about consumption? Has your brand ever talked about it and she went, You've stumped me, literally, no one has ever asked me this question before. So if we want to make the beauty industry sustainable, we have to just go for less and actually start consuming less. And that ultimately then can tie in with the formulations you use because you can use multifunctional multipurpose, longer lasting formulations. And there are many of those on the market.
Lorraine Dallmeier 8:53
So pillar two then moves into circularity, which is where we actually try to keep the resources in our products. And that can be the ingredients you use, as well as the packaging you use in a loop. It's more that that Cradle to Cradle principle where you have a lifecycle that just keeps going round and round and round. Now obviously, that's quite hard to do with your ingredients, because once they're consumed, they're either on your body or they're being sort of exfoliating off your body or they're in our waterways because they've gone down the drain. Or you've got packaging, which of course is the main opportunity for circularity in beauty, where you use packaging that can be reused or refilled. And there's some amazing work going on about this. But as I said earlier, there's a lot of greenwashing as well to where people are going, Look at my circular packaging. It's recyclable, knowing full well that I don't know less than 7% of plastics are ever ending up being recycled in in the end. So it's I think there's massive potential for circularity, refilling stations, or perhaps sending you're sending your empties back and receiving a clean one in return. And I think there's an app appetite for it. But the main challenge will be making it accessible for consumers. And I did a whole series of podcasts on this recently as well.
Lorraine Dallmeier 10:10
Pillar three is green. And that's where we start to move into an area that everyone's really familiar with where we're talking about green principles, the cosmetic chemistry, ingredient sourcing, business operations, product design. And this is where we're starting to see the cosmetics industry take quite a lot of meaningful action, where they're saying, you know, we want to go to net zero carbon, or we want to bring sort of lifecycle assessment or biotech or regeneration into some of our into some of our projects. So I think green is something that people feel quite comfortable with. Less and circular, maybe not so much, slightly more controversial.
Lorraine Dallmeier 10:48
And then my fourth pillar, the final one is where we move to a more local, more local industry for beauty really, because ultimately, there's a lot of potential to buy from small indie brands that are local to you, as long as they're using sustainable principles, sustainable ingredients sourcing, that won't be possible everywhere. But I think it's worth remembering that small businesses really form the backbone of most macro economies. And apparently, in OECD countries, they account for more than 60 to 70% of jobs. So small businesses can do a lot. And given what we talked about earlier, with indie beauty, really pushing the sustainability agenda, I think that's really exciting, because I think they could lead the way in sustainability. And then tying in with that, I think everyone can formulate, and this is obviously our message at formula, Botanica. We're the online formulation school. And I think everyone can learn how to make their own beauty formulations. It's something literally that humans have been doing for millennia, you know, recipes used to be passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't really until the beginning of the 1900s, when very clever marketers, some of the initial beauty pioneers started wearing white lab coats and trying to sort of brainwash us all with science that people started to think hang on a minute, I should only buy my beauty products from these, these experts, these scientists, I can't make them for myself anymore. But the reality is that everyone can do this. And that's also why Formula Botanica has been so successful over the last few years with, you know, 10s of 1000s of people coming in our direction, we trained over 300,000 people for free last year as well, because we literally want everyone to learn how to formulate. So that's my four pillars, we've got less, circular, green, and local.
Stephanie Moram 12:31
And I find it like kind of shocking that people aren't talking about less, like using less, because in sustainability as a whole. Like for me, when I talked about sustainability, it's using less, like consuming less use what you already have before you buy something new. So in the beauty industry, it just kind of boggles my mind that like this isn't a conversation that's being had that use less you don't need 15 face washes, you don't need 15 washes, like just you need, like a couple of things that are going to keep your face clean. Yep, you know what I mean? Like, you don't need 100 things.
Stephanie Moram 13:10
And, and you're absolutely right, that, you know, we're bombarded with, oh, you need this, this, this, this, but then you need this, and then you need this. And then you have to do this and like you're bombarded with it. And then you because you're not quote unquote, an expert in, in the industry of cosmetics, you think that you need this. And so you go out and buy it, and then you never use it you like never, ever use it. And then it just ends up in the trash. It goes bad, or whatever. And it just boggles my mind that this conversation is be had because I just feel like sustainability as a whole using less is, is going to move the sustainability needle forward. And kind of every industry like using less electricity, driving our car less using what we already have, using less packaging, you know, buying less clothing, like it's always used less, use less resources. So I just feel like it's a no brainer when it comes to beauty. But you're absolutely right that as women, we are and men, all genders are bombarded with. You need it, you need it, you need it, you need it. And it just like makes me feel gross.
Lorraine Dallmeier 14:21
Yeah. And I could count the number of people who are having this conversation on one hand. It's really quite shocking. But then it's also understandable when you have these giant conglomerates, these huge multinationals who are beholden to their shareholders and turning around and saying we're going to implement a model of de-growth into our business. It just wouldn't fly. You know, they're very rationale for existing is to make money and to constantly grow those profits. So it's going to be a tough one and it has to be driven by the consumer. But because the consumer ie us we've been brainwashed for over a century. With this you must consume my beauty products, which is the only way that you'll be worthy. You know that's going to be a tough sell. And that's why I'm currently stood on my soapbox shouting. Some people are listening. And whenever I give a talk like this, people come to me afterwards and go, Oh, this is needed to be said, I'm so glad you said it. I can't because I work in this beauty company. And it's only because I'm not beholden to those big beauty companies that I can go out and, and annoy people.
Stephanie Moram 15:20
But it's people like you or people like me that are so passionate about a certain topic that are going to make change, right? It's you getting on that soap box of Hey, have you ever thought that we use too many products when it comes to beauty that a woman uses, you know, by the time she leaves her house, she's have used like 20 different products on her body deodorant, makeup, skincare, whatever like to pays like, just the list goes on. Before we even leave our house, we've used like, what 20 products or something like that, like, that's a lot of products it'd be using on our body. And then then you're talking about how are these products formulated? What are the ingredients, the packaging, like it all loops? And like you said, and it's just, I don't think we need that many products. I really, don't I and I 100% agree with you that like, you know, I think the beauty industry can do better. Like, I really think that they can do better. And that leads me into another, you know, you kind of answered this question. But when it comes to like the sustainability in the green organic beauty industry, what do you feel? What do you feel they're doing? Right, you know, as a whole? And what do you feel that they could do? Much better at when it comes to like, you know, the the brands that fall under the green sustainable umbrella?
Lorraine Dallmeier 16:42
Oh, good question. The thing that's going right, is that people are at least having the sustainability conversation. Now, this wasn't happening until about 2020, when all of a sudden, the beauty industry, it was like they woke up from 100 years sleep or something. I mean, you said at the beginning, I'm a chartered environmentalist, I qualified in environmental science over 20 years ago. You know, I've worked in all sorts of industries. But for instance, I worked in oil and gas, not my best idea, I have to admit that I've worked in oil and gas for three years. And, you know, even then, 20 years ago, we were having these conversations about sustainability. But the beauty industry has been totally ignoring them for a very long time. So the fact that the conversation is being had is good. However, I don't feel that the companies are being challenged sufficiently. Let me give you an example. Last year, L'Oreal put out this sustainability report and their sort of vision for the future. And they were talking about how they want to be net zero, which is all very good. But then they had commitments in there such as to say, we're not going to increase our land take footprint beyond the levels that we had in 2019. And you can look at that and go, Oh, L'Oreal really good. I'm so pleased you've set yourself a target like that. But there is literally no one going well hang on a minute, were your 2019 levels even sustainable to start with? Can you justify that point? So the beauty industry lacks that ability to question and really challenge some of the sustainability conversations that are ongoing.
Lorraine Dallmeier 18:14
The other thing that I think is going really well, is the conversation around circularity. And there are some really forward thinking brands out there who are paving the way and getting sort of opening up the systems and tools for other brands to use them. They're not just doing it for themselves. They're doing it for everyone and an entire industry. I think I was interviewing someone on the podcast the other day, who said, I think there's over a million different types of packaging that you can use for beauty products. And she said, Imagine if we can bring that down to 100,000 different types, which sounds crazy in itself, right? But just imagine for a second that we CAN SLIM that down to 10% of what we have. Wouldn't that be incredible? Because then we can start to standardize things a little bit more. So I think the conversations are a really good start, what isn't going so well, as I said, is the fact that, you know, everyone's just focusing predominantly on, let's just look at our operations rather than the impact that our products have.
Lorraine Dallmeier 19:10
And apparently, a couple of months ago, I read an article on Bloomberg about this. The CEO of Unilever was on stage. And he was asked how on earth he could achieve net zero when 60% of their emissions and Unilever is an enormous company, 16% of their emissions come from use and disposal of their products. And you know what he said he turned to the audience and basically went, I don't know. And that, I think is really shocking, because in some respects, it's good that he didn't try and greenwash it. But on the other hand, he's just basically going I don't know my company is hugely environmentally impactful. It's having a negative impact in terms of use and disposal of the products that we make and sell and we honestly don't know how to address it. So we've got a long way to go in the beauty industry.
Stephanie Moram 19:57
And not to mention that a lot of there products contain toxic crappy ingredients outside of like their packaging. So I think everything you said is like, right hits the nail, right. And I think there's so much that we can do to affect change. And I think it does start with consumers, like you said, but I think he just has a long way to go to, to, to doing better. And I love everything that you shared.
Stephanie Moram 20:31
And so with that, I would love for people to be able to find you, where can listeners find you your website? I'm gonna post everything below in the show notes. But where can people follow you follow you on social media? And and I'll link your website also, below, but I'd love for you to just mention that.
Lorraine Dallmeier 20:50
Yes, happily. I mean, come on, follow us at formulabotanica.com. We have a free online course, which is available all year round, where you can learn a bit about formulation make your own body butter. We also have big master classes twice a year. I don't know when this episode is going out, but you might still be able to catch it because it's on in October. And then we come and follow us on social @formulabotanica literally every platform wherever we're @formulabotanica and come and follow me to on Instagram @LorraineDallmeier because I talk a lot about sustainable beauty over there too.
Stephanie Moram 21:22
Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me. It's such an important conversation to have.
Lorraine Dallmeier 21:29
Thank you so much for having me. It's really lovely chatting to you.
Stephanie Moram 21:33
So for more sustainable inspiration episodes, you can listen to number 24 is called What is Greenwashing, episode 31 What's Really Hiding in your Home with Lonnie Brown, and episode 54 Greenifying Your Self Care and bathroom routine again, you can stay connected with me on Instagram and TikTok @thisisStephaniemoram and don't forget to subscribe to the green junkie podcast on the platform you're listening on. And you can also download my free five part audio series live a little more green. Everything will will be below in the show notes. Thank you for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday green junkie
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