Hey, Green Junkie!
The beautiful Arti Jalan is here and we are excited to welcome you into our beautiful conversation about radical reciprocity. Fancy word, but it is infused with the most loving and kind message for you, the planet and your community.
We are talking about how self care is community care and how we need to start looking at sustainability in a deeper and more human light to really be able to take care of our planet and our communities.
I am absolutely obsessed with this conversation and hope you love this episode.
You won’t want to miss this episode where we discuss,
- What is radical reciprocity?
- How conscious living can change the earth and our communities
- The importance of keeping things local
- The importance of being ‘we’ centered when it comes to sustainability
- Creative ways to connect with your community
You’ll discover that and so much more in this episode.
If you love this podcast be sure to leave a review and share a screenshot of this episode to your IG stories. Tag @thisisstephaniemoram so I can shout you out and publicly say thanks.
Thanks for listening and being here.
Your green bestie,
Xoxo Stephanie
Hang With Arti:
https://www.instagram.com/forageandsustain/
https://www.facebook.com/forageandsustain
Previous Episodes Mentioned:
#41. Slow and Easy Living With Emily Padan
#40. Teaching Kids How to Adopt a Green Lifestyle With Kayla Powell
#38. Sustainable Fashion A-Z With Karly Hiser
Snag 1 on 1 Sustainability Consulting with Stephanie
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Produced by: Alecia Harris
Music By: Liz Fohle
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TRANSCRIPT FOR EPISODE 49
Stephanie Moram 0:07
Hi, Green Junkie, I'm your host Stephanie Moram and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Arti Jalan from forage and sustain about radical reciprocity. She will explain further in this episode. Forge and sustain is an online platform dedicated to conscious and meaningful, meaningful living through online guide, curated marketplace, workshops, and sustainability consulting. Arti hopes to help create a new generation of conscious individuals who rise above the status quo, who look beyond the surface, and who are determined to do their part and being active agents of social change. If you love learning new ways you can reduce your impact on the environment, please subscribe to the Green Junkie Podcast on your favorite platform you listen on. That way you'll never miss another green living episode.
Stephanie Moram 1:02
Thank you for being here. I really, really appreciate it.
Arti Jalan 1:06
Thanks for having me on.
Stephanie Moram 1:08
Oh, you're so welcome. So already, I would love for you to tell me a little bit about yourself.
Arti Jalan 1:15
Yeah, for sure. So thanks for that great intro, I'm the founder of Forge and Sustain. And I'm currently based in Toronto, although I have lived in quite a few different countries. And I travel pretty often as well. But I've been a solopreneur for almost seven years now. And I had a business before I started Forge in 2017. And it was kind of at the cusp of when sustainability was becoming more mainstream. But back then it was still such a concept versus a truly like accepted way of living. So it's been really, really cool to be part of this ever growing movement, and just to see how much has changed and taken off since then.
Stephanie Moram 1:58
And so how did you start on this journey? Like, did you grow up and your family was into sustainability? Was it something you just kind of fell into on your on your own through school through friends.
Arti Jalan 2:13
So many people asked me how I got started. And honestly, it just kind of fell into place. So like I mentioned back in 2017, I was feeling pretty stuck working as a freelance writer and running my first business. So I just started thinking about the things that really bothered me in the world and what kind of personal impact I wanted to have. And just from there Forage and Sustain was born. And back then it started off as just like an Instagram account and a blog, just where I could share my own thoughts on sustainability and conscious living. And it's grown amazingly, since then. But in terms of my family, I guess I did grow up in a way that was fairly sustainable, though that term was never used, or even like consciously thought about, but my parents are immigrants from India. And so much of how they raised me was just inherent and cultural, but that we now in the West to label as sustainable or conscious. So it was like the little things like food waste and food consciousness, that was also always something that they really made me aware of even taking care of clothing and making sure it lasts. Like my dad still has sweaters that he's owned for, like 30 years. And he just, you know, he treasures them. And I mean, we also had really close family, friends who care deeply about the Earth, and nature. So growing up alongside them cemented so many of my habits and beliefs and observations, we'd go on nature walks and hikes. And they would always be like pointing out different types of plants and flowers and really encouraging us to see nature as like vastly different and diverse rather than just like a green wall. So it was something I grew up doing. And it's just I think all of these small things, when compiled, they really do lay a foundation for this type of thinking, even if you're not realizing it at all at the time.
Stephanie Moram 4:05
Right. So you kind of just fell into it. Like over time, it wasn't like you woke up one day, and were like, I'm going to start living sustainably. It was just kind of that was your way of life. I guess it was just and the older you got, you just must have incorporated more sustainability habits into what you were doing.
Arti Jalan 4:22
Yeah. And just thinking about it a lot more consciously and on a bigger scale.
Stephanie Moram 4:26
Right. So I mentioned at the beginning, in your intro, radical reciprocity, so I would love for you to explain exactly what that is. And what you mean by that. I know, you mentioned when we were chatting that it's a term that you kind of coined yourself. So I would love for you to like dive in and like talk a little bit about that.
Arti Jalan 4:46
Yeah, so I mean, as far as I know, I made it up, but I'll read you the definition that I came up with. So radical reciprocity is a way of being that embraces all aspects of Unity and collectivism. When we are radically reciprocity, or sorry, when we are radically reciprocal, that word is hard to say. Our thinking changes to include the needs of ourselves and the collective at the same time, creating systems of real change that surpass transactional donations, and instead, deeply considers kindness, reverence, love, respect and care for the betterment of all. So some of the ways we can go about thinking about this term, is by asking questions, how can we give back in a meaningful way? How do the things we buy and the ideas we support, help others or do they at all. So when we think of reciprocity, it automatically makes us more conscious, because we're not just thinking of the one thing that we're buying, or the one thing that's in front of us. But we're thinking of the concept as a whole, and the ripple effect that it creates for the betterment of all. So just an example, as if we just took care of people in our communities, there would be so much more room for growth and love, and prosperity, and the ability to actually thrive and not just survive. And if we think back to the way it used to be, you know, we didn't fly food in from other countries, we didn't rely on supplies from overseas, we kept things very local, and we established self serving communities where people took care of each other and had real abundance. So buying and keeping things local, really does help ourselves, but it helps each other as well, and I've just been sitting with this idea of self care is community care. And Community Care is self care. And I just think that is kind of what the missing piece is in modern day sustainability. And it's probably why so many people feel so alone and like unfulfilled. But yeah, if we just kind of think back to the idea of the village, and how it used to be radical reciprocity was just such an inherent practice that everyone, you know, without even thinking about engaged with. Yeah, for centuries, things that were available were only what was available in your local economy. And, you know, not only did it provide this enrich energy exchange for the villagers, but it also gave everyone a deep purpose, because they were makers, and they had a purpose in the village. So just kind of thinking back to that kind of thinking, I think, if we can keep that at the forefront of sustainability, it just transfers the overall thinking from being me centered to we centered.
Stephanie Moram 7:36
No, and I love that it's like thinking beyond like, of yourself, right? It's more than me, myself. And it's, how can I give back? But also, can I how can I help people, right? And so you talk a little like about communities, like it's more than just, I'm using a reusable mug, which using a reusable mug and reusable bag is all important things. But it's also gotten me thinking a lot in the last couple of months that it's more than just that trendy mug or that it's like, really community and like you said, village. So like, what kind of examples more examples could you give? Like, how can we shift our thinking into this, that it's not only about us, and it's about communities, and ecosystem, like how can we make that shift versus like, I have my reusable mug, I have my bag, I'm doing my part, which again, are all good things. But I think we have to start thinking beyond that. Like you said,
Arti Jalan 8:32
Yeah, yeah, I use this term about like buying our way to sustainability. And I think, in a way, like we've kind of lost the point of sustainability in recent years. And I just, I mean, it's so wonderful to see so many people hopping onto this bandwagon, and you know, really trying to make a difference. But I think we found ourselves in the cracks of capitalism, once again, where, like you said, there's this idea of like buying the reusable tote, or the cute bamboo cutlery, and, you know, giving yourself a pat on the back because you did a good job. And while these types of actions certainly help and are great for raising awareness, and I mean, they also are a great gateway into this world for for newcomers. It just it's not enough. And I think it kind of fuels our society's absolute obsession with consumption. So in reality, the whole point is to be conscious over just sustainable. And in recent times, the word definitely has become a bit diluted, especially with huge corporations and big brands, big brands, just greenwashing us into their level clever marketing campaigns. So the average consumer is unfairly led to believe that that doing enough but instead of buying our way into this movement, I'm just such a huge advocate for sitting back, really thinking about what matters to us and how we could make an impact on an individual scale. And really thinking about Creating a better future and not just hopping online and replacing the stuff we have with wooden things. So this kind of community vibe and this village vibe, it doesn't even have to be huge. But it can be something as simple as stocking a community fridge in unknown food desert in your town or shopping for your elderly neighbor, or, you know, helping a mom in your building who just had a baby and like can't do laundry, just really thinking about how are we supporting one another? And how are we helping each other thrive and not just thinking about, I guess, in a way ourselves because we just want to buy our way into this movement. Because it feels that obsession that we've kind of been led to believe. So I do think there's a shift. And I think we are graduating from doing that bare minimum. And if I can feel at least that we're becoming like more kinder and open and collectively just becoming more community minded. So I do have hope that it's shifting. And I think just sitting and having these kinds of conversations with people like you is so important so that we can start to create that change.
Stephanie Moram 11:08
And I 100% agree with everything you said. And I remember when I started living more green, right, I got pulled into the whole aesthetics of sustainability, right, like, oh, I need the nice jars, and I need to buy wooden cutlery when I already have cutlery in my house, I could just literally take those with me. You know, and I need to buy the, you know, the cloth napkins when I could just use what I already have at home, like cut up an old t shirt or like, use something else I haven't home. So it's also making that shift. And I think some people catch on really fast that it's not about buying the aesthetics. It's like, using what you already have. It's it's you know, giving back to the community and all those things. And then there's other people, like you said, that's our gateway, right? That's them learning about sustainability. Like for me, I had my aha moment going, Wait a minute. I don't like shopping. I don't like consuming stuff. But I'm buying all this sustainability stuff like this makes no sense. And I had my aha moment. And that's when I shifted to using what I already have thrift shopping, buying secondhand and all that stuff. And that's what I'm teaching my daughter. And so, you know, I just I love the concept that you're talking about. Because, you know, it could be that you're growing a garden, and you have like 5 million zucchinis. And instead of maybe, you know, selling them to your neighbors, maybe it's like giving it to your neighbors.
Arti Jalan 12:33
Yeah. And I mean, I do want to say also that, you know, we do live in a capitalist society, as of now at least. And so some of those changes and buying from small businesses that I fully support, because small businesses are definitely the backbone of our communities. And it's something that I've been huge in advocating for with Forage and Sustain. So there is that part of it. But yeah, it's just thinking about it outside of just consumption as well. And like you said, sharing the wealth in ways that don't have to be transactional, but just genuinely kind.
Stephanie Moram 13:06
Yeah, and I think it's, you know, there are some stuff we need to buy, right? So my running shoes are not going to last forever. You know what I mean? Like, I'd love for them to last forever, but shoes, sometimes like over time, they just wear out. So when you are going to buy something it's looking for, okay, am I going to buy from like big box brand? Or am I going to look for a brand that is literally trying to change shopping for running shoes and you know, be more sustainable. So I'm going to always offer that. But there's other things we just probably don't even need to buy. Like, I'm pretty sure everyone gets glass jars. Unless you're canning you can use jars from like peanut butter and stuff. So I agree. It's like that shift. And you know, sharing the wealth, like you said, it's like if you have 5 million glass jars, maybe there's somebody else that needs them. Maybe there's a small business that needs jars for their business, or maybe your neighbors need jars for something like my sister took a bunch of my jars, and I was so grateful and so was my husband. He's like, Finally, and then now he's like, why are they all back? Like because like you've collecting them? And you took them because you needed them for like an art project at school. You know, I was like, take them and then she'd have to go by spend money on like fancy mason jars or something for like a project at school.
Arti Jalan 14:21
Yeah, absolutely. Like there's this platform in Toronto. I don't know if you have it in Montreal, it's called buns. And it's basically like a Facebook marketplace type platform, but it's purely trade based. So it's actually hilarious. People trade the funniest things. I had a friend who I think someone was giving, like a reusable tote bag that she wanted and the exchange was like a turkey dinner like they were just like I have this like full roasted turkey. So it's really hilarious things but just kind of comes back to that concept of like someone's trash is someone else's treasure and taking the monetary aspects out of it and by And he's really creative ways to engage with people you meet really cool people and just bringing back that community vibe of just helping each other out with who has what and who can use what kind of a thing.
Stephanie Moram 15:12
Yeah, and I love that concept but there's more in the United States than in Canada. I know there's not really that many in Quebec area. But there's a lot of there's like by nothing groups, where you just posted like, Hey, I have, I don't know, two water bottles, I don't want any more. I'm gonna leave them on my porch. If you want them come get them. You know, so like, trading is great. Like, I like that concept of like, hey, I really want that bag. So I'm going to be creative. And I'm going to trade something I have in my house that I don't want anymore. And maybe that person also wants it. And then I like also the concept of like the Buy Nothing Facebook groups, because you know, if somebody is looking for, I don't know, like planters for plants, and they're just don't want to go in and buy them. And there's somebody that is moving and doesn't have room for plants will if they put on this Buy Nothing group. Hey, I have like 10 planters, someone's gonna come get them.
Arti Jalan 16:03
Oh, for sure. Yeah, it's, it's kind of amazing how many people like you don't think that anyone would take it because you don't need it. But there's always someone.
Stephanie Moram 16:12
I love plants. And when we we only moved about a year and a half ago, and I was living we were living in a condo. So I couldn't really have that many plants in our condo, because it was a two bedroom condo for like four humans, which is not a lot of space. And I was always just scared they're gonna get knocked over anyway, so we didn't really invest in plants. And when we bought our house, I'm like this place is gonna be covered in plants. Little did I know that spider plants like grow babies, like rabbits. Oh, my gosh, I have so many babies, like what am I going to do? I can't like there's a limit on the amount of plastic and I'm in my house. And so one of my friends is just like, there is a plant, Facebook group for all of Quebec. If you post that you have like 10 Baby spider plants, they will show up at your house in like five minutes and take your babies flower plants. I'm like, I need to post that I have all these baby spider plants because they grow really nice. They're just babies right now. And they have like five leaves. But I don't need 10 More spider plants in my house, because then we're not gonna be able to walk. So it's just like that concept of like, oh, I have 10 Baby spider plants. And how I got spider plants was because my son, teacher had spider plants. And she told all the kids, if your parents want any spider plants, please bring a little bag to school and I will give you a baby spider plant. So that's how I got started. And then at the end of the year, I told my son, can you please ask your teacher she has more because I want more. And so he brought another bag and she gave him like two more baby spider plants. So my beat my spider plant started from somebody giving them to me, right? So I'm thinking, well, they're literally free. Yeah, I want to give back to them. So it's like that whole concept of like, we don't always have to, like, have that exchange of money for every single thing that we do. I can post that I'm consultant for $5 If I wanted to, I could and people would buy the plants. But I just feel like that the energy how I got the plant wasn't monetary, it was like out of kindness. So I want to shift that to like now I want to be kind to other people and like, pass that energy through and give those plants away.
Arti Jalan 18:20
Yeah, it's like paying it forward.
Stephanie Moram 18:22
I love that, right? And sidenote, if you're looking for plants, anyone that's listening, or you already you can find so many plants on Facebook marketplace, I just like to throw that out there. My husband sent me a message like two months ago, he's like Steph, I found the perfect thing for you. Secondhand plants, plants, and secondhand together, it's like the perfect thing for you. And then I went on and I bought like tons of plants.
Arti Jalan 18:51
That's a great tip. I will have to look for that.
Stephanie Moram 18:54
I never would have thought to look for classes, because what ends up happening with plants, and it's just a little side note for those listening, but just quickly is like a lot of plants grow babies, or a leaf falls off and then you propagate that plant, right. And then you're stuck with like a snake plant leaf that you grew, let's say root twist, and then you're like, okay, how many more snake plants do you need? So a lot of people I think they propagate their own plants, and then they sell them for like $5 or they're moving and they don't have room for all their plants. And they sell them.
Arti Jalan 19:23
Yeah, yeah, actually, we just did that. Because we have really good family friends who have like, such a lush garden, and they're moving and very likely their home is going to be sold to like a developer or builder. So the whole plot is going to be excavated. So my dad, like ran over and grabbed as many things as he could because he's like, Yeah, I want to propagate these and, you know, you might as well because they're just gonna get demolished anyways.
Stephanie Moram 19:48
Right and so it's again, it's thinking outside of that box of okay, this land is gonna get like a big something's gonna get put on it, but there's all these plants like yeah, I'm going to take them and I'm going to propagate them. And then if I have too many of them, I can pass them on to somebody else, right. And I do believe there's always a time for an exchange of money, for sure. For certain things, you know what I mean? But sometimes I just feel like, I'm personally in a position where I can give away those five or 10 baby plants that were essentially free, then charge someone $5 For them, you know what I mean? Where some people might be like, I propagate plants, because this is my job. Right? So I'm gonna sell them on Facebook marketplace, because it's my job, right? But I really, truly believe there is a time for that exchange of money, and then the exchange of just hey, are trading this or I'm giving it away?
Arti Jalan 20:45
Yeah. And yeah, you do. You do what you can with your access your ability, what you're able to, and so there's no right or wrong way. But 100%, I think, just thinking about things a little bit more consciously, and not always having to have some sort of exchange, just coming up coming from a place of kindness. And reverence is truly how things will change. And I think, yeah, it's really beautiful. And I think we're, we're starting to see quite a few of those changes already taking place, which is amazing.
Stephanie Moram 21:14
So like, another example could just be like all these like community gardens that people put up, right? Where if you don't have land, and you want a garden, like, aren't where I live, there's tons of community gardens. And I think you pay for the whole season, maybe like $50 like to give back to the town. And you get like, whatever amount of space that you need for your garden. And we did that for a while. But again, it's like creating that community. So we would see people when we go to the garden, and then I'd sometimes be like, we have too many cucumbers, or we have too many cucumbers, and that person didn't grow cucumbers. So I would offer cucumbers to somebody, right? Where it offers zucchini to somebody if you had like 5 million zucchinis because when you plant one zucchini, you get like 5 million.
Arti Jalan 22:01
I love community gardens, and I think it also just kind of, it brings different people different cultures together, and it reconnects us to the earth as well. And like what you're saying about giving, you know, zucchinis, and cucumbers to people, I just think it really challenges and restructures the way we've come to believe what, like prosperity and abundance and wealth look like. And you know, especially with food shortages, and all that happening in the world, right now, we really start to realize that like, what is money, at the end of the day, if we can have spaces like community gardens, and, you know, like, trades and exchanges, that is what abundance and taking care of people looks like.
Stephanie Moram 22:42
Yeah, like growing your own vegetables and fruit is like it's growing your it's growing money essentially. Right? Because you don't have to go out and buy it. Even if you're buying it from like a local farm, you're still buying it. Mm hmm. And if I had like, way more space in our backyard, I would grow so many so much food in that I would give it away, I would just like offer it to people. But I don't have that amount of space right now. Maybe next year, I'll come up with another plan. But I love the idea of like, because some people love I'm on zucchinis because I know zucchinis like, literally you plant one and you get 5 million. Like it's, I love the idea of like if I grew some zucchini that I would give it away. Like I liked that idea. Like, they'd be like, Hey, do you like zucchini? Would you like some of my fresh zucchini, it's organic, I grew it, you know, like I want to get to that place, I would love to do that be able to just give back, it's all about giving back like and I'm in a position where I can do those things. And I just love this whole concept that you came up with radical reciprocity, because it just it really makes you think outside of the box, and really makes you think that it's like literally not always just about me, sometimes it might just be about you for certain things. But sometimes it really is about other people and how you can be kind and how you can give back to those people.
Arti Jalan 24:01
Yeah, and just back to that idea that self cares, community care, and vice versa. I read this thing by a professor at, I can't remember the university, but I can send it to you and you can put in the show notes. But basically, there's this concept that self care is community care, because we actually on a deep level feel so much better about ourselves when we give to other people or when we take care or even like buying presents for other people versus for ourselves. So yeah, if we are in a position to be able to do that. It can seem on the surface, like we're just doing things for other people, but on a much deeper level, we are actually supporting ourselves as well. So it's it's more of like looking at it from a circular aspect versus like a pyramid that I think is very modern, but the circular aspect is something that ancient cultures and indigenous people have have lived within for like millennia and it just Yeah, it's it's giving and taking and reciprocity added too.
Stephanie Moram 25:03
I like the concept that you're talking about, like self care. I, I never thought about it like that. So I appreciate that you brought that up that it's, it's, it can also be like healing, right? It's like you're taking care of yourself, but you're taking care of other people as well at the same time. This has been a really cool conversation. I really, really appreciated it. And so if anyone's looking for you, like, where can they find you on social media? What's your website, I will put everything in the show notes. So you don't need to take notes. If you're listening. You can go in the show notes and find it. But I'd love for you to just mention where people can find you.
Arti Jalan 25:35
Yeah, absolutely. So my Instagram is forage and sustain. and my website is forageandsustain.com. And those are pretty much the two places that I hang out the most.
Stephanie Moram 25:47
Well, thank you so much for coming on. I like truly appreciate your time. And this was a really great conversation.
Arti Jalan 25:53
Yeah, this is so much fun. Thank you so much for having me.
Stephanie Moram 25:57
For more green living a non toxic inspiration, you can listen to a couple of my other episodes including number 41 slow and easy living with Emily. Episode number 40, Teaching kids how to adopt a greener lifestyle with Kayla Powell and number 38 sustainable fashion with Carly Heiser, stay connected with me on Instagram and Tiktok @thisisstephaniemoram. And don't forget to subscribe to the green junkie podcast on your favorite platform. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday Green Junkie
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