Hey, Green Junkie!

I have dedicated the past several years educating others about sustainability and using sustainable practices in my everyday life. 

And I hope that you have been inspired by my actions and my passion to make changes in your own life and those around you.

But today, I wanted to take this conversation one step further because while we have to take care of our planet, we also have to take care of people.

Because green living is about both – people AND planet.

So today I’m bringing on two amazing women, Devon and Maithreyi who are changing the way we shop for products and support brands by helping us be not just sustainable with our products but also support human rights and the people who work tirelessly to create those things that we put into our shopping cart.

You won’t want to miss this episode where we discuss,

• What is fair trade fashion and why is it important
• The secret inhumane practices in the fast fashion industry
• The importance of sustainable business models which include both planet AND people
• How certifications can help you be a more conscious consumer
• How to know if what you’re buying is fair trade and sustainable

You’ll discover that and so much more in this episode.

If you love this podcast be sure to leave a review and share a screenshot of this episode to your IG stories. Tag @thisisstephaniemoram so I can shout you out and publicly say thanks. 

Thanks for listening and being here.

Your green bestie,

Xoxo Stephanie

Hang With Devon & Maithreyi 

www.peopleheartplanet.com

https://www.instagram.com/peopleheartplanet/

https://www.facebook.com/peopleheartplanet

https://www.linkedin.com/company/peopleheartplanet/

Previous Episodes Mentioned:

#38. Sustainable Fashion A-Z With Karly Hiser

#33. Creating Sustainable Businesses with Sara Miltenberger

#30: Changing the Fashion Game with Camille Lee

#23. Closet Cleanout

Snag 1 on 1 Sustainability Consulting with Stephanie

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Produced by: Alecia Harris

Music By: Liz Fohle

LISTEN BELOW

TRANSCRIPT FOR EPISODE 48

Stephanie Moram 0:00
Hey Green Junkie. I'm your host Stephanie Moram and today I have the pleasure of speaking with two incredible women, Devin Nelson, and Maithreyi Ramdas about sustainable and ethical consumerism. In 2018, they set out on a mission to build the best, the best ethical shopping platform giving people an alternative, mainstream shopping sites. This new online store makes it easy for consumers to discover and shop for sustainable and Fairtrade goods. Think Kayak – but instead of flights and hotels, you find Fairtrade jeans and sustainable shoes on People Heart Planet. Like other sites, consumers see a vast amount of information and options all in one place, saving you the time and hassle of searching for multiple things on different sites. If you love learning new ways you can reduce your impact on the environment. Please subscribe to the Green Junkie podcast on whatever platform you get your podcasts. That way you never miss another green highlight ladies. Hi, Devin. Hi, Maithreyi. How are you?

Devon Nelson 1:16
Thanks. Nice to be here.

Stephanie Moram 1:21
First question is I'd love for you to each take like a couple of minutes. Just tell me about yourselves and how you started your own sustainability journey.

Devon Nelson 1:32
Yeah, so my name is Devon, like you said, and this is my business partner, Maithreyi. And we met while living in Singapore. We were both living as expats. And we were volunteering for a climate change organization. Both of us were just feeling the weight of that issue and trying to figure out what can we do to make a difference. And so we started volunteering for this organization that hosted climate conversations with small groups of people just to get people talking about the issue. And one of the things that we were realizing is in our own lives as we were trying to live more sustainably, one of the areas that we were really coming up against was consuming ethically and sustainably, especially in the area of clothing, shoes, bags, things like that for ourselves. For our kids, it was easier to buy food that was organic and sustainable. We could find certifications for other kinds of products, but especially for the day to day things socks, underwear, T shirts, running shoes, things like that. We recognize that this is an area in our life that we were not at all consuming sustainably and ethically. And so we were having conversations about it and talking about how we would go about doing that researching on blogs, looking at different apps that were coming out that maybe could help and we were just feeling so overwhelmed by it. And we realized, oh my goodness, we need to have some better technology, there needs to be a better way to implement sustainable and ethical consuming in our lives. So that's how we met. And that's how we started working together as business partners.

Maithreyi Ramdas 3:14
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with Devon on that we work with frustrated, I think I was at least in my personal life, I did use a lot of sustainable products in terms of my personal lifestyle, like, you know, my shampoo bars, and you know, my cotton, cloth bags and things like that for shopping. But when I was buying my clothing, I realized that all of it was fast fashion, I didn't have any choices. So that's when we started doing this research. And that's how, you know we started People Heart Planet.

Stephanie Moram 3:45
It's such a great idea because I feel like as people that are in like the sustainability world, we're on like a multiple sites like buying socks and buying underwear. And then we're getting our jeans here. And then we're buying the, you know, a sweater here and we're buying, you know, even not fashion, just buying all these things. And we're all these different sites. So it's such a great way for people to go to one spot. And you're absolutely right socks and underwear are one of the harder things to buy. There's less companies and for kids, for sure harder for kids. So I love that you guys have put this site together. So let's get jump right in. So as owners of this amazing company, what is ethical and sustainable consumerism in your own words?

Devon Nelson 4:34
Yeah, we love that question because it can be kind of confusing, and sometimes we feel like you don't want to get up necessarily get caught up in all of the technical side of it. But to make it simple, ethical consumerism is really an umbrella term. A lot of people haven't really heard that term. The more specific terms would be sustainable fashion and fair trade fashion. Fair Trade technically, as the certification does include sustainability. But oftentimes people just think of Fairtrade as fair wages, and how people are treated. And that's how we like to talk about. It's just in simple terms. Fairtrade is going to be how are people treated, and sustainability is going to be how is the planet treated, and obviously, the way the planet is treated also affects people. So that's one of the things that we really thought a lot about living in Singapore, being in Asia, living there as x expats, we experienced some of the pollution, even in Singapore that was happening in Indonesia, in our own backyard and having to wear masks some days, because of the palm trees being burnt to the ground. And because of palm oil production, the air quality was so poor that even in Singapore, we had to wear masks. So you can imagine what that meant for people in Indonesia. So obviously, these issues are very intertwined, how people are treated, how the planet is treated, both matter. And that comes under the umbrella of ethical consumerism or ethical fashion. And people come at it for different reasons, if you are really thinking about the fairtrade aspect of, you know, thinking about what happened at Rana Plaza, and all of the garment workers there who were killed or injured because of poor working conditions, people who are not paid enough to even buy food for their own families, we hear from people, oh, but isn't it great with globalization, these jobs are available in countries where there wouldn't be any job. So at least they're making some money. And we always want to say, let's look back at ourselves, don't we have a responsibility as people who are taking advantage of the work that's being done in these countries, to ensure that what we're paying doesn't give people just the opportunity to buy one meal a day, but all of the food, they need to feed their family and the ability to pay for health care and send their kids to school, just basic living. And then obviously, when it comes to the planet, in sustainable fashion, you're talking about things like water consumption, air quality, carbon footprint, all of those kinds of things. So it's the entire business model of, of a business.

Stephanie Moram 7:13
Right. And I think it's like a lot to think about for a company, right? So, you know, you'll have companies out there that, you know, are sustainable in the sense that they use like recycled materials, and they're using organic cotton, but then they're not thinking about the human side, they're not thinking, who's making the product, how are they being traded, treated, and where it's being made. So I think, for me, when I look at, you know, sustainable as a whole, I look at like all the elements, right? Because I think it's important, like what you said is people planet, it's not just, I feel like for me personally, when I buy a product, it's both together. It's not kind of one or the other. For me, personally, I was looking for. It's funny, I was looking for a suitcase. And it was really hard to find a suitcase about three years ago, that was sustainable, like, sustainably made in the sense of the materials were used, and then also ethical. And then I had to just choose people or planet and I went with, I went with a suitcase that I knew that the workers were paid better wages. And the company itself I knew was a good company, they had other products that were sustainably made. It's just this particular, these suitcases, were just not made with any sort of maybe, essentially sustainable fabrics. But I knew that the company overall was good. And then this other company I found, I called them up and ask them, like, where is it made? Who makes it? And they just couldn't answer these questions. And I was like, it's not worth it to get this suitcase that's made of recycled plastic. When I have no idea where this is being made, and who's making it, it could be a child for all I know. So I opted for that. So I just, I love your platform because of you guys do your research, and then you put the item on the platform.

Devon Nelson 8:59
Yeah, and the reality is that we are still at a point where people are going to maybe have to make those choices, because there are not a lot of companies out there who are doing both. Now there are a lot more than what you'd imagine there are 1000s and 1000s. And that's what we're trying to get on the platform so that people don't have to do that research. It's right there at their fingertips. And we do tell people if it's a company that is Fairtrade or sustainable, or both and most are both, but it is the case that there are some that are still focusing on one and not the other. And I think that brands are becoming more aware that people and the planet both need to be respected. But there are limitations obviously, that some are working through in terms of their business model. But the thing that we emphasize more than anything else is that it has to be an entire business model. So if the company or the brand is maybe doing one thing right by workers, but They're not really looking overall at whether or not they're respecting the people or making the product that is not a Fairtrade brand. And same thing with sustainability. It's awesome if they're doing one tree planted campaign, or if they're saying, Oh, we're gonna switch to organic, that's great. But that is not a sustainable business model. And it's, it's not hard to spot, it just takes time, because you have to spend time reading about the company, emailing, asking them questions. And that was the thing that we just realized, we were kind of tired of taking the time. And what we realized is that, oh, well, we're going to do it anyway. So why don't we just take all of this information, we're gathering and put it on a platform? Because it's information that other people want?

Maithreyi Ramdas 10:45
Yeah, the challenge I think about, you know, starting off being a fair trade a sustainable brand, is a lot of these brands are small brands, they start off, you know, having this sort of value system in their head, and saying, Okay, we're gonna start off doing these things, but they have to start small, they can't do everything on day one. So I think that's why you'll find that some of the brands focus on one or the other. But you know, like Devon was mentioning, a lot of the brands that we have on people have planted are both Fairtrade and sustainable. So and also in terms of certifications, that that's another way of actually looking at, you know, whether they're ethical or, you know, the fairtrade certification, or the sustainability certifications, like got certified and things like that. We don't only include brands brands that are certified, because we feel like some of the smaller brands may not be able to afford them. So we do give them you know, the benefit for actually trying to be more sustainable or be more in terms of fair trade also doing their best. So they do pay their, you know, workers fair wages, they ensure that they're treated well, and they work in safe conditions. And that's what's more important to us.

Stephanie Moram 11:58
And what are some speaking of the different certifications? So what are some simple and concrete steps that as a consumer that might not know exactly what to look for? When it comes to identifying truly sustainable and ethical brands? What are a couple of tips that you could offer? To everyone listening? If they're just like, I don't know where to start? I don't know how to tell if I'm, you know, this brand is truly sustainable and ethical.

Devon Nelson 12:23
Yes. So the first thing is look at the label and look at the brand. If it doesn't say anything about Fairtrade or sustainability, it isn't. So that's the easiest way to tell brands that are focused on this. It is all over all of their information. I mean, they are shouting it out loud, and they're giving you everything to back it up. So if you're saying, Oh, I don't, I don't know how to shop slow fashion or ethical fashion or sustainable fashion, because I just don't have the information. Well, if you're not seeing it, then you're not shopping ethical fashion, because then it is past fashion, no doubt. So the way that you would know is you do have to read the brands, site and information, because they're going to tell you how they pay their workers, where that's produced, what factories, they're using factories have certifications, some of them are actually World Fair Trade Organization, or fair trade USA or fair trade, whatever country just certified, that's for sure going to be the best certification, because that, like I said, includes how workers are treated as well as sustainability. It's not something that a lot of brands carry, it is difficult and the process is long to get that certification, but there are brands that are doing it and when they are then you can no 100% that that is a very ethically made article of clothing or product. And then mighty, do you want to talk about the other sustainability certifications?

Maithreyi Ramdas 13:54
So yeah, when you when you look at sustainability, the other you know, the side of the coin, when you look at ethical brands, you basically look at things like the materials, you know, so natural materials are obviously more sustainable than something that's made out of recycled polyester or recycled plastics, for example. So some of the certifications for organic cotton may be got certification, which basically looks at the actual organic material like organic fiber, and also the social aspect of making this fiber. And some of the other certifications when it comes to say, leather some people argue that leather may not be sustainable, especially the vegan population, but some people do think that it's sustainable because it's a very long lasting fabric, long lasting product. So there's something called the leather working group. So they really certify leather to say that you know, this leather has been made without, you know, harmful chemicals. And it's been made ethically, with people who are paid fair wages, and things like that. So besides, I think certifications, you also need to look at the overall business model of the of the of the company, if they're not looking at things like how are they actually manufacturing this product, if they're using a ton of chemicals, or if they're using a, really a lot of water or not, for example, denim, it takes a lot of water to make a pair of jeans, for example. So there are lots of innovative companies now that are using laser technology in order to give that washed out, look, instead of using a lot of water. So you know, there are lots of different ways that companies can be sustainable. So I think, you know, doing your research actually reading about all of their information that they have on their websites or on their, you know, marketing, like Devon said, is really important to understand whether they're doing their bit, you know, to be more sustainable.

Stephanie Moram 15:58
Yeah. And I think you're absolutely right, Devon, when you said before, that a company that's sustainable will scream it from the rooftops, they're not going to tell you what's not in their product, they usually tell you how good their product is, right? They're always on that positive like, we, we recycle this, we lower our water by this much we lower our waste by this much. You know, you're talking about the jeans, my tea, like I didn't know about that technology for jeans. So that's something new I learned today. But those kind of scream that from the rooftops. And so when I'm personally looking for an ethical brand, I'm going to see what are they telling me that's really great about their product, and then go like a step further. And you know, it could be emailing the company. I usually go by social media, I always send DMS to companies like where's this made? And I know the person usually answering won't have the answer, but I want to know if they're gonna go find the answer for me. So I often email. So that's like a great tip for if you're kind of lost, just email the company and ask them and if they don't give you the answer that you want, then they're probably not that sustainable and ethical. If they can tell you where it's made. They can tell you their factories, they can tell you what the material is made of what their certifications are, then you know that they really do care. And they're they're not just like faking it till they make it kind of thing.

Devon Nelson 17:21
Yeah, I mean, that that really is the key. And the thing that like we try to emphasize the most is that when people say, Oh, they're hard to spot, they're not actually there. I know that there. There's not as many of them as what people would like. And people want the information more at their fingertips. But the reality is, is most of what you are consuming is not ethically made. And that's why it feels hard to spot. It's because you're looking at it going, Oh, it's made from, you know, so many recycled plastic, or, you know, plastic bags. Oh, so does that make it sustainable? No, it does not. Because if it was sustainable, it would say a whole lot more than that. All they're telling you is that they're using post consumer waste. Okay, that's fantastic. That's better than doing nothing. That's better than using virgin materials. I'm not going to say that there's, you know that that's a bad thing. But there are actually so many companies that they're going the full mile, they're actually implementing an entire entirely sustainable business model. So they're looking at their entire supply chain from beginning and not even to end they're circular. They're looking at how do we get the product back to us? How do we recycle it. So you don't have to compromise and just pick up the thing on the target shelf that says X number of, you know, whatever avoided, that's great. And that that's what you need for convenience that day, that's fine. But if you use the apps and you use the platforms, and you like you said, do some research on social media, it's getting so much easier to find out who are those truly fair trade and sustainable brands? And there are just so many amazing brands, people have said to us, oh, Are you launching a brand are like absolutely not, that is not what we're doing. We don't have any ambition to do that. We are trying to just be one more voice that is shouting out the brands that are doing this work, because they need all of us to be talking about them poke find out who they are, post about them on your social media, tell all of your friends, these brands are the future they need to grow, we need to be buying from them because they are getting everything right.

Stephanie Moram 19:30
And I think it's you know, like you said it's harder to spot them because there's so much noise with like fast fashion and all these other like brands that you know aren't so good. And a lot of the time these companies that are doing it really well are smaller company so it's harder to find them just in that respect because they don't have a million Instagram followers necessarily, you know what I mean? Or they don't have this like super elaborate website or their SEO isn't because they don't have the money to implement postings because the money is going into the creation of their products. So like you said, when you do find these companies to tell your friends and tell people and let people know on social media, hey, there's a really great company that makes organic socks made in the United States. And they take their socks back, you know what I mean? Like it's finding those companies that are doing really trying and wanting to make changes. And so on that topic of How can you simple and concrete steps that consumers can look for like on the flip side, how can you tell when a company is actually greenwashing? You know, when it comes to fashion, or even like everyday stuff at home? What are some things that when you see that you're like, oh, yeah, that's totally greenwashing. They're not gonna catch me?

Devon Nelson 20:43
Yes, so many of them.

Maithreyi Ramdas 20:47
I mean, there are many ways of greenwashing, to be honest. And you know, it's sometimes very difficult to spot it, you know, because you feel like, wow, you know, they're doing this and they're doing that feel like, they must be sustainable, they must be doing something right. They have a conscious collection, they must be sustainable. But actually, I mean, greenwashing is just when brands appear to be ethical or sustainable. In order to be appealing to a conscious consumer, consumers are becoming more aware of, you know, ethical and sustainable issues. And they do want to support brands that, you know, are doing good. But you know, greenwashing is again, another, I think, challenge that we have to face now, with kind of finding out whether they're truly sustainable or not. I think some of them also claim to use sustainable materials, like we were talking about using recycled plastics or recycled post consumer waste. But just doing that, of course, without having any sort of change to your whole business model is not going to cut it, you know, when it comes to being a sustainable brand. And also, this second part is using recycled materials, but you know, failing to overall change your business model. So fast fashion brands churn out millions of pieces of clothing every single day. So that's absolutely unsustainable. And when they don't look at the sort of water usage that goes into manufacturing, their products, the number of chemicals that they use, and also the health of the workers, you know, that are involved in making these products. So you know, you have to look at the whole lifecycle of the product as well. But just from greenwashing. You know, from that perspective alone, you know, we can be very misled by the claims of these fast fashion brands, and also using things like eco friendly or natural or the term green, without providing any sort of evidence to back these credentials. Because some of these terms are not regulated at all, you know, anybody can use them, anybody can put it on their packaging, and say they're natural. So that's, you know, another thing to look out for, and also, you know, having these one or two collections saying they're conscious, or they're green, but the rest of their collection continues to be, you know, what it is, you know, they again, produce 1000s of low quality clothes with materials that are totally unsustainable, like polyester, or, you know, fossil fuel fuel based fabrics. So they have to change that and shift that fast fashion model towards being a more sustainable model. So that's, I think, some of the things that we need to look out for when it comes to greenwashing.

Devon Nelson 23:32
Yeah, and I, I'm just gonna emphasize again, because I know like, I feel like we just all can't say it often enough. And we just need to be saying it to more people, that it is easy to tell when a company is truly ethical and sustainable, because they're going to shout about it. So just turn that package over. Don't care what it says on the front, it can say natural, it can say good for the planet, it can say what are all these things that can have, you know, all of the beautiful imagery that we're expecting to see from all these brands, just don't even care what that looks like, just turn that package over and read what they put on the label and on the back, there's going to be some little symbol somewhere. If they carry a symbol, it means that they're certified, they went through the steps, if they don't have that, like there's an awesome brand called all the FIA that they don't have the certifications. But when you read about the company on the label, they tell you everything they do in their entire business model, and you know that they have the goods to back up their claims. And then if you want to take that extra step, you have the time and I would suggest that at least a few times people sort of get into the practice of doing it as go to the website and read further and then go to some other bloggers pages to see what interviews they've done to verify that and go to some third party sites to also verify it and you'll see once you practice that a couple of times like Okay, so that's what it looks like for a brand to go there. Extra Mile. And once you do that, once you get in the habit of just turning that package over reading that description of the vaccine, where's it made looking for whether or not it's actually just a little subsidiary of say, like Unilever or something like that really popular right now, these are not companies that are sustainable, they're making efforts to be more sustainable. And I hugely applaud them for that, I think that that is fantastic. I think that we can put more pressure on them to do more. And the biggest thing we can do to put more pressure on them, is stop buying what they're making. Because then they're going to realize we're going somewhere else, we're going to brands that are really doing the work. So it's, it's actually not hard to spot, you just have to do a little bit of reading, because like I said, these ethical and sustainable brands, they are telling you, they are not hiding a thing.

Stephanie Moram 25:53
And you know, I agree with everything you both said about finding these brands, and I was out shopping for something, I can't remember what it was, oh, I had to pick up my son's soccer outfit. And I don't have a choice in how it's made where it's made. He just got he has to wear it. So I can't choose. And I was looking at Sandals just randomly in the store. And then something caught my attention. I see like all the Adidas sandals, and then I see stop plastic waste. And I'm like, well, that's interesting. And so all the Adidas sandals are used with cardboard, and then they have one's pair of women's Adidas. And I started looking at it like these are really nice. And I'm like Stephanie, you're about to get greenwashed do not. They're really pretty. They're made of cork, they say they want to stop it. But then I opened up my eyes and I realize, but then why did they still have all the other crappy Adidas, why don't they make all their shoes like this? You're a big company like, throw, like not throwing out but start reducing how much you're making of the other shoes and bring these ones in?

Devon Nelson 26:58
Exactly. And you just named a company that I have such a hard time with because I do love Adidas. I like I love their luck. It's such a fun shoe. I've bought him secondhand, I'll be honest. And I do the same thing where I'm like, oh, and they I mean more than other companies, they're actually doing a lot more than some of the other brands. So you have that moment of like, oh, you know what, I mean? They're they're making these amazing strides. So isn't that great. But the reality is, they do not have an their business model is not sustainable yet, they'll probably get there faster than the others. But if you want an actual shoe that is sustainable, you have options, I mean, 1000 Fall makes a shoe that is literally recyclable. I mean, come on, and their entire process is sustainable. So you do have other options. Again, I'm not shaming people who if you buy the Adidas, okay, cool, but I can one of the things that might be and I have totally connected that and it's why we love connecting with people like you, Stephanie is, I cannot tell you how much joy there isn't a journey. When you start making these switches, all of a sudden, you're like, Oh my God, I am supporting the most amazing brands, the most amazing founders who are out there just literally changing the world. It is so much fun. You you don't do it anymore, because of the weight of the problem and the guilt or the shame. I mean, yeah, you still do recognize that this is a huge problem that we all are very concerned about, obviously climate changes. You know, climate anxiety is real. But it's it's one of the best ways to combat it is when you start consuming this way, you just feel this amazing. Joy, gratitude, fulfillment, hope. And it just it changes you and it changes the world.

Stephanie Moram 28:45
Yeah, it's, you know, when I started my journey, I would have you know, 10 years ago bought these Adidas sandals. And there's nothing wrong with it. You know, like you said, no shame and someone buying it. We're all on a different journey. We're all starting somewhere. I shopped at Target and Walmart and bought organic clothing for my new baby. She's 11 now, and I was like, I want to get clothing I didn't know to go search for sustainable brands like, oh, well, I just happened to be in Walmart right now. And I happened to be in target. I'm just gonna buy this. And then I evolved to, I don't want to shop at Target and Walmart anymore. I don't want to support these brands for multiple reasons. But again, there's people that are gonna buy these sandals, and I guess it's better than buying the crappy plastic ones, to be honest, right? It's still better. But from my standpoint, and maybe your standpoint and my team, we're just like, we're past that now. And we want to really support those small businesses that are have their whole supply chain, you know, not me, maybe not their whole business, but you know, they're getting to a point where their business is sustainable and eco friendly. So I struggled to win with Adidas. I'm like, Well, if I buy them, maybe they're gonna buy more, they'll like sell more. You know, it's like organic food. The more organic food I buy, the more companies are gonna think it's better to support Organic, and maybe they'll slow down their conventional production of foods. I'm like, Well, maybe if I buy the Adidas, more people buy them, then they will produce more. And I'm like, Stephanie, don't be silly. Don't buy the stupid marketing ploy, you know?

Devon Nelson 30:18
Yeah. The exact conversation in my head. Exactly.

Stephanie Moram 30:25
This has been a great conversation, we definitely should do it again, talking about fashion. And just other things. It was super great connecting with you both. It was a wonderful conversation, I would love for you to just tell the listeners where they can find you. Where's your website, how they can connect with you on social media. If you're looking for jeans, or you don't know where to start, and you don't want to do like that read, just go to their site and check out what they have, you know, on their shopping platform, and maybe you'll find a cool brand that you never heard of before. So take it away, let us know where we can find you and social media and everyone listening, everything will be in the show notes. So if you don't have a pen and paper, don't worry. It will all be listed at the end of the episode.

Maithreyi Ramdas 31:09
Thank you so much, Stephanie, for having us. It was really fun talking to you. So you can find us online, we have a website called people hot planet.com. All of our brands that we include are either Fairtrade or sustainable. And we also include vegan and organic brands on our site. We also have a brands directory and ethical brands directory that has over 150 brands. So it's really easy for you to filter down into categories that you need or the values and find what you need. So you can DM us on Instagram or on Facebook. We're also on LinkedIn. And we have a YouTube channel as well. So please check us out. And it'd be great to connect.

Stephanie Moram 31:56
Well, thank you, Devon. Thank you, mighty both for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to be here today. Thanks, Stephanie. It was so much for having us. For more green living inspiration, you can listen to my other episodes including number 38 which is also about sustainable fashion, sustainable fashion etc. with Carly Heiser episode number 30 Changing the fashion game with Camille lee and number 24 What is Greenwashing which happens to be a solo episode super short, super sweet that you can check out as well. You can stay connected with me Stephanie on Instagram at either green junkie podcast, or this is Stephanie moram. And don't forget to subscribe to the green junkie podcast on the platform you're listening on. Stay connected with me on Instagram @thisisstephaniemoram. Don't forget to subscribe to the Green Junkie podcast on your favorite platform. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday Green Junkie,