Hey, Green Junkie!

I’m so excited to introduce you to Cory Connors, the sustainable packaging ninja. 

Cory was so gracious to join me today so we could discuss 

• Sustainable packaging
• Labeling and changes coming to labeling practices
• How to ensure you’re supporting sustainable brands
• How you can dispose of harmful materials in a eco friendly way
• Things to watch out for in the future of sustainability

You’ll discover that and so much more in this episode.

By the end of this episode, Green Junkie, you’ll be more aware of how to support sustainable brands, read labels and feel more empowered with how you spend your money.

If you love this podcast be sure to leave a review and share a screenshot of this episode to your IG stories. Tag @greenjunkiepodcast so I can shout you out and publicly say thanks. 

Thanks for listening and being here.

Your green bestie,

Xoxo Stephanie

About Cory

Cory Connors helps companies improve the sustainability of their packaging. After 24 years in the industry, he is working hard to spread this positive message. He is happily married with two great kids in the beautiful state of Oregon.

Cory’s Podcast: Sustainable Packaging

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Cory’s website

Previous Episodes Mentioned:

Episode #8: Recycling plastic: What do those numbers mean?

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Produced by: Alecia Harris

Music By: Liz Fohle

Listen Below

Transcript for Episode 25

0:07
Green Junkies, this is Stephanie Moram, your host, and today we're going to be talking about sustainable packaging. We have Corey Connors on today, he helps companies improve the sustainability of their packaging. After 24 years in the industry, he is working hard to spread this positive message. He's happily married with two great kids in the beautiful state of Oregon. So Corey, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to join me today to talk about sustainable packaging.

0:40
Oh, yeah. Thank you.

0:42
You are very welcome. So I think the first question I have for you today is how did you get involved in this? How did you get involved in the sustainable packaging world?

0:56
Great question. And it's, you know, it's a long story, I'll try to make it as concise as possible for this audience, because I'm sure they don't want to hear about when I was born and all the background details. But I got into packaging, kind of by mistake, really, I graduated high school, didn't want to go to college right away, I knew I wouldn't make good decisions in college, I wasn't there yet mentally to buckle down and do work hard. So I went and got a full time job. I applied for to one at Les Schwab tires and one at a Warehouser Packaging, and got the got them both and chose Warehouser because I didn't have to shave my goatee. And I worked there for five years paid my way through college. It was an awesome experience learning how to make corrugated boxes, and working all the different kinds of machinery that produces corrugated from paper all the way to finished product. Then went to college, got my degree in advertising and wanted to make commercials. That didn't work out because when I graduated college, no one was hiring for advertising. And I went to a job market on campus or they had a job fair on campus and there was a packaging company there called Landsberg. Or actually, at the time, it was called Kent H. Landsberg. This is 19 years ago now. And they hired me because of my background in packaging, and several family members who had been successful in sales. So I think it just kind of worked out. But I've been there ever since. I never thought I would stay this long. I never thought I would enjoy it this much. And I love it. It's different every day because packaging is amazing. It affects us all every single day. And we have no idea how much or how important it is to us.

2:55
I love that story that you've been with them for so long since college that is so awesome. So we're gonna dive into sustainable packaging. But before we do my question for you is at home as a family. Do you guys live more green? Do you guys keep the earth in mind when you're making everyday decisions? What is it that you guys do as a family to be more mindful of the planet?

3:18
Yeah, so one of my nicknames is Corygated. Because my name is Cory and I work in corrugated. That was the name given to me at warehouser. And my kids and my wife will say is this Corygated approved? When we buy something, they're looking for.. Is it sustainable enough? Is it recyclable? Is it is it the greenest choice possible? So we have just by living this way. To answer your question, yes, we are as green as we can be. And living in this great state of Oregon – we have a lot of capability of recycling. We have a lot of ability of farm direct purchasing things like that local farmers markets. We have a company called Rodwell that helps us recycle things that our local municipality won't. They take our plastic over at films and thermoform trays and things like that. So they get actually recycled. And it's a local service that picks them up. And so yes, the answer is absolutely as green as we can be.

4:25
That's awesome. So going into sustainable packaging. One question I have for you is what is the best packaging innovation you've ever seen?

4:33
I think the one that really kind of blew me away was a product called G Ami. And what that is, is it's a paper alternative to bubble wrap. It was my first viral Tiktok video showing that product. I think it got like 500,000 views or something and just back then it was like wow, that's so many! But it works. And it's very popular now. And it's replacing the plastic packaging.

5:08
So is that particular packaging, it's instead of using bubble wrap, they wrap up their, whatever their glass jar or whatever it is that they're, they're selling, they wrap it up in the paper instead.

5:19
Yeah, so it's dye cut. And when you pull on it, it expands and creates 3d, like a three dimensional product, it makes the cells the air cells. And this this system that I have is called The Rat Pack X mini. And it's, it's an easy thing to get if you have a small business, or you have a whole bunch of packing stations for your company, you don't need a machine, you just pull on the paper and it expands. And then you wrap up your product, and it's got a roll of tissue inside of it to protect the finish of whatever you're wrapping.

6:00
Oh, that's awesome. I love hearing about different packaging that's offered that's less plastic. Which comes to my next question about plastic. So do you feel that plastic packaging can be sustainable?

6:17
Yeah, well, I guess that depends on what your definition of sustainable is. And I think that's, that's the biggest question here is, what do you feel is sustainable? Does it mean we can recycle it? Does it mean, we can reuse it? The answer is plastic can be sustainable, if it's done correctly. And if if it's advertised on the plastic, what it is. I think a lot of this issue we're having with recycling is an education issue. Frankly, our consumers don't know what to do with the material because they don't know what it is. So my constant advice to companies is put the number on there. What is it? How do we recycle it? What can we do with it next time? Can we reuse it? Can we turn it into decking? Can we grind it up again and turn it into new bottles? You know, what's, what's the secret here? Too often? We don't do we don't there's no markings on it.

7:19
Right. And so Cory and I actually met on clubhouse, which is an app where you can have conversations. And one of the things I remember you saying at one point, because I don't like plastic, I am always looking for alternatives to plastic as much as possible. But I love what you said, I can't remember the exact wording that you use. But you said even if plastic is the only alternative for whatever is being shipped, because the glass jar might break or something might break. It's more sustainable, that the whatever you ordered actually arrives at the destination versus if you ship some glass jars and you think well, I'm going to use paper, I'm going to use something else. And then it arrives broken, it's actually less sustainable, because the actual product broke. And now the company has to re-ship it. So then there's that, you know, imprint on the environment of shipping a product twice. So it's also finding that balance, I think, too. Yes, finding different ways to package your stuff outside of plastic. And if it's not possible, it's to make sure that product gets to you in one piece because you don't want to ship it twice. Right. So yeah, well. And that's like the one thing that I remember I was like, when he said that I was like it wasn't it was like mind blowing even though I already knew that. It just like reaffirm like, yes. plastic isn't amazing. But sometimes there's no alternative. And if the alternative to not using plastic is that the products break, then you're not more far ahead, right. So in your sustainability, packaging world, I'd love you to talk about a little bit about different things that you might recommend companies to do. Or when you're consulting companies on packaging. I'd love you to dive in a little bit on that and really talk about packaging and what it is that you recommend companies to do when it comes to packaging?

9:08
Oh, yeah, thank you. There are there are some things that can be done immediately to make instant positive changes on packaging. And I honestly recommend calling a packaging engineer or a packaging company like Lansbury Aurora that I work for someone like that locally to you. And we do have 55 locations in North America. So I'm sure there's a division close to you. But I think it's critical that you take a look at what you're doing and you do minimize your packaging as much as possible without taking it too far to risk damage like you just said earlier. There's nothing sustainable about damaged freight. And because it that becomes landfill and then you have to refill the order. And then you have an upset customer which will lead to less business in the future. So minimize your packaging to the point where you're still comfortable that it's going to arrive safely. But you don't need huge amounts of void fill in a box if you can, right size the package, you'll save a lot of money on on materials and on freight. And it will be more sustainable. So there's that's kind of the the trifecta right there, those three things will make you more successfully sustainable, in my opinion. And, you know, just looking at, can we use different material? Can we can we make this fully out of corrugated? Can we make this fully out of paper? Or can we make sure if it has to be plastic or foam, that that material is recyclable, and clearly identify that to your consumer so that they can easily dispose of it properly.

10:53
And I love how you talk about like dispose of it properly. You mentioned at the beginning, it's just I think it's so important for companies to take responsibility for the waste that they're creating. So if it is plastic to clearly put on the packaging, what number it is, so at least they can go to their recycling facility and be like, “okay, this is number four plastic” and check, can it actually be recycled instead of just assuming it can be recycled. And I also think when it comes to other packaging materials to take the time to put on the package if it can actually be recycled, right? It's so funny. I recently had someone come over and they had like a plastic bag, but it was like not a traditional plastic bag that you get at the grocery store. Or traditional plastic bag that you might get to put your produce in it was like that crinkly weird plastic. Yeah, and the company put recyclable on it. Yes, in theory, it is recyclable. But no one is really recycling that type of plastic. So it's just so maddening to me that a big company because it was a big company that put recyclable and the woman's like, here, I can put this in the recycling. I'm like, oh, no, no, no, you can't. Because most recycling management systems like, don't actually take plastic bags, they have to have special machinery for that, right? So on top of that, I know my local recycling place does not take that type of plastic bag, it clearly says it on the website. So it just gets under my skin that a company puts its recyclable, in theory, almost everything is recylable, it's just are there systems in place to recycle that actual product? And most of the time, not most of time, but a lot of the time it can be no because it's just maybe not worth it for a company to recycle it. So when it comes to plastic, I love how you say that, like the company needs to clearly have on their packaging. Like what number this plastic is just so that if they can recycle it, they actually will recycle it right?

12:54
Yeah, I'd rather have a company be upfront and honest and say, this is landfill. Right? You know, I received a package the other day that had a number seven, with a triangle around it. And it was plastic. And it wasn't even a recycle symbol. It was a triangle. And I was so mad. I made a video about it. Because I was just upset that these guys are greenwashing and trying to make because people think oh, it's got to try and go that's recyclable, right? People are just conditioned to assume that that goes in the recycle bin. Now, that's the worst case scenario for packaging, because people will put it in the recycle bin, and it will gum up the system. It will get in the system and cause problems for the recyclers. I'd rather have that just go to the landfill. It's okay, you you chose that as a packaging material. just own up to it and say, sorry, guys, this one's landfill, we'll do better next time, you know.

13:54
Right. And it's taking that responsibility. And I, if something is not recyclable, and you put it in the recycling, it causes more damage to the machinery, right? Like, if you put plastic bags in the recycling and it's not supposed to be in the recycling, then it slows down the recycling, it slows down, you know, their daily production, it just causes a host of problems. And I just I like what you said how like companies need to own up, you know, and stop. And the other thing that I feel is so important too, is to stop passing the buck on to the consumer. You know what I mean? If you truly want to make products that are more sustainable, can be recycled, can be composted, can be reused, whatever that is, then do it and not just be like, Oh, I put a number six on it. So I did my job. Well, it's more than just putting the recycling sign of number six on it. Right. We both know that. My question for you. And you said there was a triangle on it. Was it like a random triangle? Or was it the actual like, wasn't the actual recycling triangle that you see on all plans?

14:55
Oh,it was obviously greenwash. And it was the designer just put a triangle around it with a number seven, which as we know means other, which means not going to get recycled unless, unless you go to somewhere like a TerraCycle that's really going to mechanically or chemically recycle it. I mean, they're even recycling cigarette butts. That's a whole different thing. I interviewed them. I couldn't believe it. It's incredible what they're doing. But we need people to own up to what they're making. And we need consumers to know how to recycle properly.

15:35
Right. And what do you think about compostable packaging? Because I like compostable packaging, but what do you think about it? And do you think sometimes it's causing more harm than good because people don't know how to dispose of it properly?

15:51
Yeah, I think it's a big issue. Right now. People are confused by it. They assume they see. I'm seeing a lot of symbols on packaging that say compostable. And I saw Adam Peake posted one the other day that said, This cup is compostable in four years and had this huge print on the side of it. I thought to myself, That's ridiculous. You know, I mean, come on. So you, that's your advertising, that you're compostable. And four years, to me, that's a problem because people will see that and say, Oh, it's recyclable. So there's a lot we're a long ways from where we need to be as far as education. And that's on the company side and the consumer side. People don't know how that affects society. When you say it's compostable. A lot of people assume it's recyclable. And I'm a fan of compostable if it's done correctly, and it's identified correctly, and it's available, where you're where you're selling. So if it's curbside compostable, and you've got a pick up system for it, and you can industrial compost it, that's a great idea. Love it. It's awesome. But most of the time, it's not working effectively.

17:11
And I like how you talked about curbside composting. It's not readily available to everybody still in most places. So it's great that companies are like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to use compostable cups. I'm going to use compostable straws, all these things. But then it's like they're doing good. They really do think that they're doing good. And I do truly believe that these companies are like it's better than regular plastic. But what happens is, as you just said, people think it's also recyclable, but it's not. So it comes to the compostable plastic bags. Like I get. I order my food all my produce from a local rooftop farm here in Montreal and they come in compostable bags. Do I love that they come in bags? Not really. But I'd rather get my food that's like, you know, 10 kilometers away versus ordering from California. You know what I mean? Even though I could get them without plastic bags, still the imprint like the environmental footprint is still less by me getting my food locally. So they come in compostable bags, but most people probably that received those bags do not understand that. You can't mix compostable plastic bags with regular plastic bags. So if your local recycling facility accepts plastic bags, and then you mix them, that just causes a whole other problem too. So I know they can't be composted. So I keep them. And I put them aside, and I don't add them to my pile of plastic bags that we can recycle here. So I think they are the companies have good intentions, I just think that the system is kind of broken.

18:49
Agreed. And I think it'll change it's changing quickly, there's going to be laws of extended producer responsibility, there'll be a recycled material will continue to increase in value. With the onset of extended producer responsibility that's happening right now. Unilever, Pepsi, these companies are buying up all the post consumer recycled material. What does that mean? To us? It means that companies are going to push for, for us to recycle. And they're going to make their material their packaging out of recyclable materials, in my opinion, and hopefully that will help us.

19:29
Yeah, and, you know, it's also different states and provinces, like you said, having the different rules in place like here in Quebec, we get five cents a can we get five cents a plastic bottle, so the average person is kind of, oh, well, I just bring it back where I bought my product. So if I'm buying a soft drink or whatever, I keep a bag and then when I go buy my next one, I just bring them with me and I make 50 cents and I get 50 cents off my next product. Right? And I think that's like a good incentive and they're actually going to be doing that. For I'm going blank right now but you know, the the milk cartons and like the almond milk cartons and stuff like that they're introducing that now because it's not super recyclable, they're like my local recycling facility does accept them so I can put them in the recycling but not everywhere, except those cardboard because they're not essentially completely cardboard right there. There's a lining rate. So they're actually introducing, I don't know exactly when, but hopefully it's going to be soon they're going to be introducing like, Hey, you get five cents back if you bring back your almond milk container or your milk container, or whatever that is, because by separating it, it actually makes the recycling process better. So by eliminating all the plant, like as many plastic bottles from our recycling that have like the five cent sign on it, by eliminating the you know, as many aluminum cans from the recycling, and then now eliminiating the, you know, the milk cartons, then in the recycling, there's less of that. And then the recycling process is better. Yeah, so it's these innovations, and these changes in our recycling, that is definitely going to be better.

21:02
The number one recycled consumer item in the world is car batteries. The reason for that is because of their huge core value. So when you go when you go get a new battery, your old battery is worth money. So that's why it's the number one recycled item in the world is because it has so much value. They've taken the deposit idea, the five cent idea and take taking it all the way to the extreme. I think you can get over $20 for these car batteries, which is incredible. And new car batteries are made out of 80% old car batteries. So it's one of the most recycled things in the world and they are the most recycled consumer item in the world. So it's proving what you're saying about the deposit. If we make the material valuable, people will recycle it.

22:01
Oh, for sure. And even reuse it. So yes, we get – I don't personally drink milk, but my family does- and we get grass fed milk in a class jar. And for longest time, I was just holding on to them because I can't put a glass in the recycling. I feel really bad.

22:17
You're hoarding glass. I know you right.

22:20
And then I found out, I've been charged $2 Every time I buy this milk, and then I can bring them back. So I brought back like 40 bottles. I was like, there you go. And they're like, like, yeah, I didn't know that I could bring them back. And I didn't know you're charging me $2. So it's even that kind of stuff, right? Where that company is like, this glass is valuable. I don't want to keep buying glass over and over again, if I can get like, whatever percentage of the consumers to give me back my glass jars, then I don't have to buy more. I just have to buy the cap.

22:55
And you're creating a loyalty system, you're creating a dedicated consumer, you know, they're gonna come back to you every time you're not going to go buy the other milk because it's 11 cents cheaper. You're going to buy that milk because that's what you're used to. You've got the deposit. You know, I just interviewed Loop Packaging. That's what they're doing. It's incredible. Their first store is opening, or the first systems opening next week. It's exciting. You know, we'll be able to buy our products in reusable containers.

23:31
Yeah, it's it's, you know, it's great, that stuff is recyclable. But reusing is obviously better because you're reusing the same product over like the same container over and over again, right? It's instead of being like, Oh, yes, glass is recyclable. We know that. But I just cry every time I see in the recycling, just because it's not plastic, you know, and it can be reused so many times. I remember when we were living in the US, and I can't remember where it was. I think it might have been when we were living in Augusta, Georgia. And I had to bring the recycling to the recycling facility. They didn't do pickup where we lived. So I had to hold on to my recycling for like weeks upon weeks. And then you had to separate your glass. But you know, this is where the glass goes. And I would see all these beer bottles and I'm like, JP, we need to get a truck and bring it back home. We'll have so much money like just showing you that, you know, beer companies here in Quebec. They take back their bottles because they reuse them. They're not recycling them. They're reusing them. And that's why I think my husband and I we talked so much about like, the different like, like cans and bottles and how having companies using the same size bottles instead of trying to be different is actually better. So you know, kombucha companies, there's a zillion kombucha companies in Quebec and in Canada, and they all want to stand out and they all want to be different. So some use cans, some use bottles, but they're not like all the same bottles. So it's really hard to to change between companies where beer companies, they're all using the exact same ones. So whether it's like Bud Light, or you know, Molson using the beer bottle doesn't matter, because they're all using the same one. So it's also the change companies. And to understand that, like, yes, different is good. But if all kombucha companies use the exact same glass bottle, then any company could use that glass bottle.

25:30
Yes, we use standardizing packaging as a key.

25:33
That was the word I was looking for standardized.

25:37
It's such a big key to the future of sustainability, in my opinion. So well said, thank you.

25:43
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's a conversation I have with JP all the time when we're talking about cans and glass and better packaging, you know, and he was saying, like, if kombucha companies would just try to stop being different, and go like beer, then things would things then they could all reuse their own bottles. So we were talking about composting. So I wanted to kind of just talk to a couple minutes, talk about biodegradable and composting because they're not the same thing. And I just bought something because my son loves a certain hummus because apparently I don't make hummus correctly. And it's BS and tahini. But anyways, another story, and he loves a certain hummus. So picked up the packaging, and I'm like it says, biodegradable, I'm like, seriously? Seriously, everything is biodegradable. So I'd love for you to maybe talk about that, you know, because it has to do packaging, right? And what companies are putting on their products. So compostable versus biodegradable.

26:38
So eventually biodegradable will be illegal to say on paper. It already is in Australia and it already is trending that way in California. And what California does the rest of the US often follows quickly behind. With their truth and labeling act that's coming out soon, you won't be able to say biodegradable because we all know that's kind of BS. And it's just, you know, let's be honest with our consumers. What are we really? What are we really saying here? We're saying it eventually will break down? Well, that's true. That's true for everything, literally, everything. So even Styrofoam is biodegradable after I don't know how many million years or whatever. But it's, it's ridiculous that people would say that on packaging. So we're working hard to to change that and standardize it and make it backyard compostable. I think that'll be the new kind of catchphrase. Although I don't know about you, but I'm not going to put plastic bags in my garden. I'm going to, I'm going to hope that there's industrial composting available locally. And that's improving. I'm seeing that grow more and more. So I think we'll see. We'll see two factions. We'll see recycling improve and composting improve. And that'll be you know, different ways of getting it to an industrial composting facility.

28:07
Right. And like, like you said, backyard composting, so there's backyard composting, and then there's like, industrial composting. And that's also there's also a difference between that just because something is in quotations compostable doesn't mean it's not gonna break down as quickly in your backyard. It's not great for your backyard. I remember when, when I was still really learning about composting again, I was living in the US and I didn't have composting available to me. So I would shop at Whole Foods and I asked them, can I bring my composting to you? And they're like, Okay, that was before they actually had composting like bins available to the consumers. It was actually behind the cash, the composting, so you couldn't just go and compost. It was when we were in Arlington, Texas. So I went to the manager. I'm like, I really want to compost. There's nowhere for me to compost. Can I bring my compost to your store? She looked at me funny. She was like, Sure we industrial compost, so not a problem. And they actually gave me compostable bags and they said I love that you like to put your compost in a bin but that's not going to work for you to dump it in our compost. She's like “here's some compostable bags when you come to Whole Foods, bring your bag and you know the person behind the counter will happily put it in the compost bin for you.” So that was how I started composting was really Whole Foods opening up and saying yeah, sure. And that's when I started learning about industrial composting versus backyard composting. It's not the same thing because I mean, would you like to explain the difference?

29:40
Well, it's very energy intensive industrial composting. I've seen videos about it and it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of effort. They have to make sure all the temperatures are consistent and correct. And you have to get the material up to a certain temperature but not too hot. So there's a lot of turning it over, there's a lot of air rating, there's a lot of, you kind of have to spend a lot of time, essentially turning it over to actually make the the material break down again and turn it into something that could be used in a garden, or something in your yard or something like that for the future. Whereas backyard compostable, you're supposed to be able to just throw it in your backyard into a pile and it's gonna compose eventually. Which to me, I don't know, I haven't seen a lot of stuff that actually does that. But I haven't researched it a lot. I've had a few companies reach out to me and want me to promote their stuff. And I just, I don't know, I can't do it until I really know it works.

30:47
Do you mean companies that are seeing their product can be put in the backyard to be composted? Is that what you mean?

30:53
Yeah, yeah, it's important that we differentiate between backyard compostable and industrial compostable. I think that that'll be part of the truth and lab labeling act that'll that'll take place here, especially with the onset of extended producer responsibility.

31:09
And I think it's, it's important, I think, if you are making a package that is compostable, you know, like, for plastic, we have one to seven, again, I did a whole episode on the numbers, you can go listen to it, just because there's a number on it doesn't actually mean it's gonna get recycled, but at least the numbers there so you have an idea. So with composting, it would be good to have some sort of like universal identification, at least in North America, where if it's a C with a one industrial and a C with a two again, maybe something a little bit easier for the consumer, but you know what I mean, where it's like, oh, this is industrial compost. I have compost my company, my company, my town compost. Okay, that goes in there. Oh, there's a two on it. I can put it in my backyard. So I think that will help the consumer go where can I put this will finish and I put it in? So they put in the backyard? Or do I put it in my my local composting and I would love to see that happen. And like you said in California, with the truth labeling, once they started, it's going to start snowballing. And you know, hopefully Canada is going to start picking up on some stuff because I love composting. It's, I really truly love it. It's just if the system's broken, it doesn't work and we're it's just getting put in the landfill. So we need to have like more truth on on our labeling. And what do you think of you know, the different companies that have come out with like, Pela is one example. They have compostable one that I have it it's you know, the they have compostable blue light blocking glasses are compostable but they came out originally with to protect your phone, you know, the back of your phone? I don't even know like what are those called, you know, you put on your phone. And then they also have like a little slip that you can stick your finger in. And they recently created a little compostable machine and they're telling their consumers put your when the when your back of your phone you know the your protection your phone case, there we go phone case, is no longer usable, it's broken down, or anything else that they sell, just put it in our little Pela, compost machine, and then you can put it in your backyard. So again, it is like it's kind of like I don't know if you've ever seen them. It's not like a hard plastic. It's almost like how do I say that? It's like, it's like a bendy plastic. I don't know all my plastics. But so what do you think about companies? You know, they're taking responsibility by saying, “Hey, we sell you this machine.” But what do you think of companies that are telling their consumers to put stuff like that, like, you know, their phone case? Or your blue light blocking glasses into your backyard? Composting?

33:51
Yeah, I think it's, it's great if it's work, if it works, you know, it's I haven't tested it. I'm very hesitant with backyard compostable. You know, we do grow our own food in our garden. And I don't know that I would be comfortable putting plastic or even if it says it's biodegradable, or compostable, or bio based materials, or whatever it says, you know, I'm a skeptic. When it comes to that stuff. I need to see that it works. There are people that are successfully making plastics out of things like chitin, which are sea shells, and seaweed and things like that. I've interviewed companies that are totally 100% based on this concept, and they're doing really well. And they see that the potential is huge. But I think what we all need to remember is that the plastics industry has a 60 year headstart on all of us, and we you know, we're working to change like it and record amount of time to something totally new. And so it needs to be tested, we need to check it out.

35:08
Right. And, you know, I'm all for composting my backyard like my plastic bags and stuff like that. But at the same time, I don't want to leaching in my food. Right. So it's almost like, I need to have like, this is the compost pile for stuff that I don't want in my food. This is the compost pile for the stuff that I just put like my banana peels and stuff like that. But again, the average person is not me, they will do stuff like that. They'll stick their plastic bags, they'll stick their pillowcase, which again, I'm happy that that option is there to compost it. But then now we need to think about, okay, we're telling consumers that they can compost all these things, but then they start using it in their food. And this stuff is gonna stay in the soil. So if we're growing carrots, and they're using, I don't know what in their plastic bag, and it's compostable. And that's great. But maybe there's something in that plastic that we shouldn't be ingesting. And now it's in our carrots. Right? So it's like, again, it's the system, it's it's like you said, you know, plastic has a 60 year headstart on us. And we're trying to like make these changes rapidly. And consumers are trying to figure it out, right. And a lot of people are not like me, and you were maybe doing that extra research and really looking into things. So it's almost like a lot of how the system functions just needs to be easy. Like, yes, it's complicated.

36:33
It can't be. That's the secret. We have to make it easy for the consumer to recycle, in my opinion. Recycling is is safer, it's easier to understand. You know, compostable is, is great if it works. But we understand that recycling can work. And it's it's proven itself. And if consumers have it available curbside, or by a company like Rodwell, or recyclable that can actually pick it up. That's the future of sustainability right there, in my opinion.

37:07
Right. Well, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. We're gonna have to do this again. Because yes, I have like 5 million more questions.

37:20
Once a month, yes.

37:22
There we go. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And if you are looking to connect with Cory, I'm going to give him a couple minutes, I would love for you to tell the Green Junkie audience about your podcast, you have a podcast, I'd love you to take a couple minutes and let them know where they can find it.

37:40
Oh, thank you so much. It's available on Apple and Spotify and Google and I Heart Radio. It's called Sustainable Packaging with Corey Connors. And it's really taken off. I didn't have a lot of grand visions for it. But we've already passed 5000 downloads in just seven months, which is I'm I don't know how to compare that to anything. But it sounds like a lot to me. And it's getting a lot of I think the best part is I get to meet people like you and I get to meet people that are making positive changes and doing big things in this industry and influencing people in a positive way without the focus on their financial gain. It's It's really exciting to interview companies like Redwall and all of these companies that are making huge efforts to improve the sustainability of the world. And it's exciting.

38:47
Well thank you for being here. You can find Corys podcast like you said it's called Sustainable Packaging. He also has a website corrugated cory. You can find him on LinkedIn, you can find him on Instagram and Tik Tok. I'm going to link that all in the show notes. So you can go listen to his podcast, you can go binge all histik toks they're really, really awesome. So thank you so much, Cory, for being here. I hope that everybody learned a little bit more about sustainable packaging, and I'll see you next Tuesday Green Junkie.

39:18
Thank you, Stephanie.